cyclists next!

[woodstock521]

Just seen bbc news about WCC labelling cyclists as a danger to society! 1 in 5 break the law apparently, typical WCC; as the mayor tries to encourage it, wastemonster say they're dangerous... what party are those clowns up at victoria street?!

[ldn1702]

Just seen bbc news about WCC labelling cyclists as a danger to society! 1 in 5 break the law apparently, typical WCC; as the mayor tries to encourage it, wastemonster say they're dangerous... what party are those clowns up at victoria street?!

Are they going to stealth tax cyclists as well now?

[woodstock521]

I was thinking that this is the kind of thing someone could use to bring in licensing and registration on cycles...

Not that politicians abuse reports in this way..... 

[DastardlyDick]

I was thinking that this is the kind of thing someone could use to bring in licensing and registration on cycles..

My personal opinion is that if cycleists want to  have special lanes reserved for their use (and I'm not talking about bus lanes) and special areas reserved for them at traffic lights then they should make a contribution towards the cost or, in short, pay Road Tax!!



0

[upyourschalkley]

With respect DD, I disagree. We've accepted paying for stuff over the years and I don't care if cyclists don't contribute, their effect on the infrastructure is minimal at best. Yes, I agree they do get nice stuff but they should be the ones standing up and not paying anything and I'll stand with them.

There's a thousand and one reasons why but how about the main one we know about, the money would go to councils and be spent in the same way revenue from the WCC motorcycle parking tax. Which varies between something and nothing, on street security and extra bays (?).

Whatever it is, they like us, will end up paying to put their transport on the road, pay to park and then end up paying forever and a day for the infrastructure. Their revenue will join ours in bolstering services that really WCC Poll Tax should be paying for, Dial A Ride and services like that.

[Morris Starling]

I cycle every day 10k to work, 10k from work. Yes, I am using cycle lanes and ASLs at traffic lights, but I would never accept any charge for using this mode of transport. And I am jumping red lights provided I'm not forcing any pedestrian or other car / bike to run or brake. So I'm probably the one out of five. Yet thanks to that I still consider myself a much safer rider / driver (I also ride a motorcycle and drive a car) than people who never sat on the saddle and don't have their perspective.

With regards to infrastructure - of course, some money had to be spent on infrastructure - on painting the green cycling lanes, putting up parking devices, BUT bicycles don't ruin this infrastructure at all, and they don't pollute at all. On Saturday I drove around London and I spent 3 minutes covering about 20 yards, because of the traffic at London Bridge station. That's 1.5 tonne exerting pressure on that stretch of road and 3 minutes of fumes sent out to the air. It will cost to rebuild the road and it will cost to cut down the emissions in UK in general.

Bicycles - bring savings and similar to motorcycles - cause no congestion at all.

Morris

[DastardlyDick]

If cars and motorcycles have to pay to use the road, why should bicycles be any different? After all, they're very keen to be considered as 'road users' when it suits them!
I'm not out to 'get' cyclists per se - I just want a level playing field.

[Morris Starling]

I'm pretty sure that if the law changed to force cyclists to put a registration plate on the bike it would open the door to charging them. But at the same time - If there was no tarmac and no oil left in the world, the bicycles would still work....

I understand what you're saying DD, cyclists ARE using the roads nearly the same way as cars and motorbikes, it's just that they don't affect the road at all.

[woodstock521]

There should be some degree of training given though, cyclists will weave through traffic like us (I've always been on 2 wheels, my push bike has been sat in a garage since I got one with an engine) but almost never look. No glance over the shoulder before moving, no mirrors, no lights, silently weaving into the path of a motorcycle, and then not moving forward enough to let the bike get a decent start off the lights when bmw prick decides he must be at the front of the cue at all times.... we've all been there I'm sure. Maybe numberplates etc is not the right way to do it, but there has to be more legislation....

[Morris Starling]

compulsary training - absolutely! I could then become the instructor, learning people how to safely jump the lights... and then telling them not to do it

[upyourschalkley]

I agree with legislation for good standards, but not to confuse that with finding another cash cow for governments to tax us even more.

[jimc]

If cars and motorcycles have to pay to use the road, why should bicycles be any different?

Careful - that's the same argument WCC and some car drivers use for charging m/cs for parking.

[kaychanc]

it's a good argument for bicycles to contribute to the road as they cause A LOT of accidents....  if SECURITY was offered and insurance given for stolen bikes as it was in a council bay then i would be happy to pay... it's never going to happen though!

[DastardlyDick]

Careful - that's the same argument WCC and some car drivers use for charging m/cs for parking.

But I do pay to use the road - it's called Road Tax and that is what I think cyclists should be paying too!

[jimc]

You haven't paid 'Road tax' for over 70 years.  It's Vehicle Excise Duty, and is just part of general taxation, with no, absolutely no, connection with road upkeep.

Please keep up at the back...

[chopster125]

tbf i think cyclists should pay to use the roads as they cause accidents and use the road BUT it wont happen especially round where i live. people just wont pay it and police wont enforce it

[jimc]

FFS if you support *your* argument you are just the same as some cager saying we should pay for parking.

Get REAL!  And a brain-cell.

[DastardlyDick]

FFS if you support *your* argument you are just the same as some cager saying we should pay for parking.

Get REAL!  And a brain-cell.

So this is the new MAG recruitment method is it? Call people stupid when they don't agree with you? I don't think it'll catch on!
I've never said that m/cs should pay to park (I wouldn't be on this forum if I agreed with that!) - just that cyclists should contribute something for the extra benefits they get in the form of cyclepaths etc. Ok, so I may not have called VED by it's proper name but by what most people (I've never heard anyone say " I must renew my Vehicle Excise Duty Disc") call it, which is 'Road Tax'.

[upyourschalkley]

Hee hee... You seem to hit a JimC nerve there DD

I can see what you are saying and I know it will be a popular opinion. Mine is from the other side of the tracks because we know how WCC have performed over this parking tax and we've got nothing for our money. That's exactly what will happen to the cyclists too. They'll get bike locks and stuff but that would be the end of it, five years down the line they'd have the same shitty bike locks only they'll be rusty and vandalised.

As far as I can see, the 'profit' from this bike parking tax isn't benefiting PTW riders because we aren't getting anything. The people who are getting the bunce is Verrus, NSL (soon to be Mouchel) and WCC.

My question to you would be, why would you want to wish that on cyclists? Road tax for bikes is the same thing really, what would the public or the cyclist gain from it? JimC is right about one thing, Road Tax and the use of that money on transport infrastructure is a very tenuous link.

I've got to take task with your comments about cyclists causing accidents though, that's the same kind of stereotype PTW riders get laced with. Fast, noisy, dangerous, smelly (and that the riders not the bikes!), ignorant... The list goes on. Like us riders, cyclists are from all sections of the community, stereotypes don't  do anyone any good unless you have a need to generalise to make a point (like parking taxes).

Cyclists are victims of accidents too, like us they are vulnerable but where we can use instant power to get out of the way (as an option) they can't, they aren't always the cause of them.

[Grond34]

So this is the new MAG recruitment method is it? Call people stupid when they don't agree with you? I don't think it'll catch on!
I've never said that m/cs should pay to park (I wouldn't be on this forum if I agreed with that!) - just that cyclists should contribute something for the extra benefits they get in the form of cyclepaths etc. Ok, so I may not have called VED by it's proper name but by what most people (I've never heard anyone say " I must renew my Vehicle Excise Duty Disc") call it, which is 'Road Tax'.

One of my biggest annoyances about the whole bike parking charge is that it is a provision that has always been made through funding collected from the tax we already pay (Council Tax where we live and Business Rates where we work).  Councils now seem hell bent on finding ways of charging for stuff which is already paid for out of a budget but they'll never reduce the Council Tax nor the Business Rates on the basis that they no longer have to pay for something out of it because a charge has made it self-funding.

Cycle paths, pavements, etc are all funded out of the tax bucket and it is not practical to charge pedestrians and cyclists as they cannot be identified and I think it should remain like this.  Councils should stop employing people trying to find ways of raising revenue.  I agree that bicycles use the road and have cycle path built but trying to charge for the usage is just to similar to trying to charge bikes for parking and thus double charging the users.